徐坦谈杨勇
采访:李扬
受访:徐坦
李扬(媒体人):能说说您和杨勇相识的过程吗?您二位在个性上是否有很多共同点才能惺惺相惜呢?
徐坦(艺术家):是在十多年前,第一次碰面在一个艺术性机构里吧(博尔赫斯书店),后来几次听见朋友在谈起作为一个青年艺术家的杨勇,对那些挺有名气的策展人和艺术家也不唯唯诺诺的。还听说是他某次出国参加展览,让某个知名艺术家帮忙放行李,在场的其他人都对这个年轻人有点摸不到头脑。是个趣闻吧,挺好的,说明初生牛犊不怕虎。这种“嚣张”不能说对所有的艺术家都是一种难能可贵的品质,至少他有,这对于艺术创作的好处就是敢于说出自己的话。我不清楚我是否跟他一样,但是据朋友说我对人客气,温和。我想也许我骨子里很不变通,外表上是温和的。仅仅这一点肯定不是潜心做艺术的原因,做艺术专心是因为艺术对我来说很重要。杨勇作为艺术家是认真的,为人也很爽,应该说这是我们成为长期朋友的原因。
李扬:那么您是否觉得说,这根杨勇先生小时候的经历有关呢?比如说他在很小的时候就很受关注,甚至9岁的时候就开了个人画展,是不是因为太顺利才有这样的个性呢?
徐坦:也许有关系,但是也有很多人,小时候也许比他更顺,也不一定长大了依然这样。认识十几年他的个性也有些变化,至少更有弹性了。
李扬:您觉得地域差异或者在国家差异都表现在什么地方呢?会很显著吗?就比如说我们国家当前的艺术专业教育是不是造成我们与一些艺术发达国家差异的根源呢?
徐坦:地域差是肯定存在的,至于差距根源在于我们这里当代艺术活动出现的很晚,有关这方面的艺术教育,开展的时间还很短,如果过了若干年后,差距还很明显,那么再去找其它原因。制度当然是根源之一,但是制度或者体制也是经常在变化中的,这种变化对于艺术创作本身也许是有意思的,任何社会的艺术教育都会考虑艺术作为行业,职业的问题,事实上在文化艺术发达国家,艺术学院同样也在培养艺术从业者,但是教育里还有比较小的比例是培养职业艺术家的不能等于零。关键在于社会整体意识对艺术业内的影响。全社会的倒性的功利主义,和物质主义价值观,以及必要的社会人文价值缺失,对艺术的影响最大。
李扬:您觉得我们在教育上的差距在哪里呢?“遛弯看艺术”这种现象您觉得是好事吗?
徐坦:在目前的情况下,遛湾看艺术是正常的,除此之外,还能怎么看呢?如果某个人进了音乐厅,听了巴赫没感觉,不知道那种反反复复的声响有什么意义,那怎么办?可能就改听王菲。选择以什么方式看艺术是观者的权力。
怎么形成的?是因为我们从小生活在一个没有艺术教育,没有艺术环境的社会里,我们习惯了没有艺术的生活。我出生在一个“艺术世家”,但是在80年代初,当我第一次听到以前不断被人颂说的“贝九”——因为文革期间不能听到交响乐——刚一听时觉得困倦得不行。在我强行让自己听了一年的这类音乐后(因为我知道交响乐在西方文化中的价值才迫使自己的),我才能够欣赏,我相信这带给我另一个世界。
李扬:艺术上的意识该怎么培养呢?或者说,您觉得这种艺术意识是不是天生的呢?比如杨勇先生这种,并无家庭熏陶的艺术家。
徐坦:这是社会性的问题,不是先天的问题。天生的艺术才能是有的,但是这对于从事当代艺术的人来说是不重要的。社会要提供更多好的艺术环境,和艺术教育给民众。对于个人来说,重要的是自我塑造,而不在于是否有天赋的意识。
李扬:分享一下,你觉得杨勇先生的作品中哪一个或者是哪一个系列在您看来能称得上令人满意呢,为什么?在某方面取得很高成就和口碑之后,这会是一个阻滞另一杰作的因素吗?
徐坦:他九十年代末,和2000年代初的摄影系列作品是最令我欣赏的,在深圳的街头,天桥,隧道,室内的少女,是到今日为止我认为最好的作品。正如你所说,这些作品的个人特色很鲜明,不可重复,当然根据你所问,这种艺术中的辨识度很高是优势。改变风格是难的,因为受到很多方面的制约。“成就”“杰作”之类的词,在艺术文化史上来说,是有多重含义的,似乎很难明确回答“是”或者“不是”。
李扬:您在艺术上的追求是很纯粹的,不会为市场的导向来轻易改变,这样不会影响艺术普及或者是教化的力度吗?您觉得杨勇先生是否能算是“名利双收“的艺术家呢?
徐坦:是的,不会为市场的导向来轻易改变,一般来说,我会专门参与一些艺术教育普及活动,此外,我自己的创作,是不考虑普及教化问题的。你觉得杨勇是“名利双收”类型的艺术家,我自己不能确定这一点。如果他果真是这种类型的艺术家话,我当然是区别于这种类型的艺术家。我觉得这种“名利双收”类型的艺术家是有做明星艺术家的潜质的。
李扬:在您看来您觉得艺术的作用是什么呢?和杨勇先生多年的交往中,就你们有探讨过这个问题吗?
徐坦:艺术是文明,文明有时有用,有时没用,但是它可以用来判断人所在的社会生存状况。就是说,如果我们评价一个社会,有钱,但是既没有文化,也没有艺术,我们可以想像这种评价意味着什么,如果我们恰好也生活在这样一个社会里,我想,我们怎么判断我们的生活呢?我和杨勇时常会探讨一些更为属于艺术内部的问题,也会涉及到这个问题。艺术上的创造性并不与经济效益相排斥,所以“在艺术上能够创造有效的,经济层面上再创造有效性的可能就相对来说少一些”,这句话不成立。反过来讲,经济上很有收益的艺术家,也许什么没有任何创造价值:很有创造的艺术家也许没有好的收益,这都是可能的。具体的个体艺术家是否有创造性,并且被社会认可了多少你可能两方面做得都很好,也可能一方面好另一方面不好,也可能两者都不好。我想说的是,这两方面不是一种涨消关系。
李扬:这次对流展的作品中,您对哪些印象深刻呢?大芬村是比较特殊的一个地方,当初杨勇先生邀请您参加这个展览的时候,您是否有过考量,是否对展览的选址产生过疑问呢?
徐坦:因为我是参展艺术家,并且多次到现场工作,所以,几乎所有作品我都有记忆,从这个角度来说,所有作品我都印象深刻。值得欣赏的是,这是一个从别样角度考量的当代艺术活动,在这里,艺术被赋予另外的语境,而且是很复杂的上下文里呈现的语境。所有作品在这个现场呈现不同于在其它一般性展览空间能呈现的情境和境情。我一开始没有十分看重在这个现场的工作,后来则觉得非常有意思。我和杨勇私交是很好,但是私交对于真正的艺术工作来说是不重要的。对于纯粹的艺术工活动来说,意义有限。
李扬:请问你们觉得展览能够传达什么呢?相对与其他的展览,这次大芬村的展览是否带来什么新意呢?
徐坦:展览类型很多,动机不一样,所能传达的内容很不一样,一般来说,传达了:1.文化理想与创造,2.艺术表达的社会沟通愿望,3.商业或者其它文化政策的传播需要。大芬村的展览由于其复合性的背景原因,融合了以上三种原因,所以它有意思之处在于这种背景带来的特殊含义。我觉得对于文化和艺术发展还是有益的,意义甚至超越了本地这个概念。
李扬:如果说展览并没有被有效地传达策展初衷,我们试分析,原因是什么呢?是接受能力还是其他的什么呢?
徐坦:任何艺术展览都有可能得到和预期效果不同的结果,因为艺术最有意思的是其不可预测性,这也是它的实验性,和真正前卫性之所在。在中国,当代艺术没有较多的共鸣,我认为原因是:当代艺术是从西方传统中发展起来的,在中国需要时间去被认识。另外,即使是
传统艺术,在中国社会也普遍的缺乏教育和理解,我是说:即使是真正传统艺术的,对于中国人来说也是不易理解的,比如很少中国人能够真正理解中国古典绘画,这种艺术是非常神秘和超越的,我认为这种艺术意识在现代中国已经基本遗失。如果能够理解这些传统艺术真正精神,即使部分的理解,也有助于理解当代艺术、当代艺术并非高深,曲高和寡,而是在中国环境中语境尚未形成。视觉艺术的传达方式不同文字传达,需要一些教育。如果没有适当的教育,你也不能真正欣赏中国明清以及民国初年的传统中国画。也就象,如果你没有上过高中,大学,你也难以阅读哲学和文学,事实上,西方现代文学,现代哲学在我们这个升学率快速膨胀的社会里,读者却越来越少,我以为这也不是曲高和寡的问题。
李扬:杨勇先生的摄影作品、甚至绘画作品之中也有一些深层的,并不明显的意义在其中,您能从您的角度为我们解读一下吗?
徐坦:杨勇的摄影作品,我个人认为其宝贵之处:体现了一种知觉状态,我认为我们人类意识中有一种特殊的状态,处在感性和理性之间的某个时机。在这个时机按下快门,这个图像事实传达给人们的知觉信息,是处于其它状态时获取的图像不可比拟的。我是从专业角度来说的。而实际上这也是一种辨认,而不是深奥,就是说,我有特殊的辨识角度,并不深刻。一张图像,和另一张图像,可能差异很小,仅在于前者你看了你可能感受到图片中的关系似乎都在一种运动关系中,而后者这些关系都处于静止中。对这些关系的捕捉,需要摄影者自身处在一种特殊的生理心理状况,拍摄者的状况,拍摄的图像会反映出来。而杨勇的摄影作品是处在一种极为敏感的状况的,我看了以后,深为一种个人处在新兴快速发展城市中的某种特殊不可言说的意向,即享受又焦虑,和不稳定精神状况所感动。
李扬:民众都有一种艺术家有钱了就不艺术了的想法,这种想法可以被理解吗?在您和杨勇先生的接触中,你们之间是否有交流过类似误解的话题呢?您对这些的看法是怎么样的呢?
徐坦:艺术家富裕和中国的市场发展有关,这确实不是全球,或者整个社会文化历史体现的情况。实际上和中国当代艺术之纯粹的艺术上发展状况没有逻辑联系。也就是说:并没有很多创造性的工作产生在这个市场发展高涨的时期,所以,我不在意这件事,艺术家富裕了,我觉得很好,如果艺术家不富裕,也很正常,这对于艺术创造来说是另外的问题,我只关心艺术创作。艺术家有钱了艺术会做得好些或者差些,这都是不“成立”的设想;设想,如果中国艺术市场情况不好,艺术家都很贫困,那么中国的当代艺术就会好些?我不这样认为。总的来说,艺术环境富裕些,有利于艺术发展,但是富裕带来艺术家头脑发晕,这是艺术家素质的问题,不是钱的问题。
李扬:生活与艺术能无缝链接吗?平常人在表达的时候是不是也有一个稍微艺术一些的选择呢?有什么建议吗?
徐坦:杨勇的创作充分体现了那个时候新兴城市青年人的某种状态另外还有劳动者的生存状态。我做“关键词”项目,将艺术和社会存在联系起来,是为了了解社会意识情况,不仅仅是质疑,而是一些显现的和潜在的意识倾向,用艺术的观测方式去探测,用艺术的表达方式去研究表达我的探测,我更在意艺术的专业创造性方面的工作,艺卡是社会表达方式,特别是当代艺术的方式,一旦被普遍了解和掌握,可以成为普遍和有益的表达方式。我在做关键词学校项目的时候,十分重视和社会中的人的表达关系,我总是鼓励他们尽情表达在不久特来的,在深圳的我的个展,我将鼓励来访者尝试成为艺术家,象艺术家一般尝试创作,那怕是做6分钟的艺术家,我也将努力协助其表达。
李扬:做当代艺术的人需要有一个怎样的心态呢?要忧国忧民吗、是超乎世俗?您在做艺术研究的时候,关注的只有艺术本身吗?是否也会为以后的发展做考虑呢?
徐坦:我认为艺术家最要紧的是热爱艺术,具有独立精神,国民是个人的性格素质的表现,不是对艺术家的必然要求,比如,在政治运动年代,艺术家放下笔,走向社会,响应了政治运动呼吁,也许作为人来说,你觉得是匹夫有责,但是作为艺术家的艺术生命就结束了。我们社会在过去的一个世纪,过分强调文化人的社会良心,而践踏了作为艺术家艺术生命的必要性,结果就是导致这一百年即没有卓越的哲字,也没有好的艺术、任何政治运动,甚至战争,都不是中断一个民族或者社会的文化艺术发展的理由。正如我们都知道的故事,阿基米德在计算中被入侵的罗马人杀死,毕加索在纳粹占领的巴黎画了“格尔尼卡”,这都是我心目中最高的科学家,艺术家人格。置生死和其它于度外,我还是象前面说的,艺术有时有用,有时没有用,但是,它是人类文明和精神的宝藏,这是一个价值观念的问题,如果我们认为没有文学艺术,没有哲学,没有教育我们也能够生活得很好,我们的社会的未来是什么?当然,在文化,和艺术教育长足地发展以后,当我们能够看明白艺术,我们能够听得进真正的音乐,可能我们能够看到另一样的世界,或许。
Xu Tan Discusses Yang Yong
Interviewer: Li Yang
Interviewee:Xu Tan
Li Yang(media): Can you tell me how do you meet with Mr. Yang Yong? Are you both having a lot personality sympathetic feelings in common to it?
Xu Tan(artist): About over a decade ago, we met each other in an art institute named. (Libreria Borges). Later l heard several friends complain that a young artist who is Yang Yong was a little bit arrogant, he was not willing to compromises with those very famous artists or curators. l also heard that once he went abroad to participate in a particular exhibition, he asked a well-known artist to help put luggage, other people are not sure what is Yang thinking. It is interesting and maybe good that his fearlessness at that time. This “arrogance” cannot say that for all artists are valuable quality, maybe at least he had it. Speaking their own words for the benefits of art and creation is very important. l am not sure whether l like him, but according to other friends, they though I’m kind and gentle. l think perhaps my soul isn’t very flexible, but appearance of me is mildness. Exclusively by this point, it's not an element that can concentrate on ar. Focus on art because in my opinion, art is very important. As an artist, Yang Yong is meticulous, and also frank about his character, which should be the reason that we have a long-term friendship together.
LY: So do you feel that this is related with the experiences for Mr. Yang Yong when he was a child? For instance, when he was young, he had a lot of attention by other people, even he was only a 9-year-old boy and even opened a solo exhibition. Did his personality depend on the smoothness of his art career?
XT: Perhaps they had relationship, but there are also a lot of people, as a child may be even more smoothly than him, but in the future they don’t necessarily grow up like that. For an almost a decade friendship, he also changes in his personality more or less, or at least to be more elastic.
LY: Do you think where are the regional differences or differences in the country show in? Will it be very significant? For example, is it the root that our art from professional education has differences with the countries that have developed art?
XT: The regional differences must exist, and the important gap is the start time on contemporary art in China is so late, also the education period is too short for all the art scene. lf after a few years, the gap is still obvious, maybe we can look for other reasons. In total, the system is certainly one of the roots, but the system is still frequently changing, this change might be interesting for the creations of the artists themselves. The art education of any society will consider art as a trade and profession problem. As a matter of fact, in the countries what the culture and art are developed, the art academy is also training art practitioners, but in the education scene, there is still relatively small proportion for the developing professional artist, not means zero. The key is the influence of the art industry from community sense. Above all that we mentioned, the most influent things on art are the Overwhelming Utilitarianism of society, the materialistic values and the necessary lack of the social and human values.
LY: Where do you think our education gap existing? ls this a good phenomenon that we often said “view art summarily”?
XT: In the present case, view art summarily is normal, in addition, how to see it in another way? If a person went into the concert hall, listening to Johann Sebastian Bach and did not feel well, it didn't know the meaning of sound over and over again, how do? May be it changed to listen to Faye Wong. The way for art viewing that people selected relies on the right that the art gives to the viewer.
How did it form? Because we live in a society that without any art education and art surrounding, we are accustomed to the life without art. l was born in a family of art, but in the early1980s, when l first heard the song Symphony No.9 before being constantly said, because during the Cultural Revolution, we cannot hear the symphony-just heard of it, l feel sleepy. I listened to force myself after a year of this kind of music (because l know the symphony in the value of Western culture only to force their own), I can appreciate, l believe this brings me to another world.
LY: How to cultivate the awareness of Art? Or, do you think the awareness of art is not born of it? Such as Mr. Yang Yong, there is no family effect on him.
XT: This is a social problem, not a congenital problem. Innate artistic talent is there, but people who are engaged in contemporary art is not important. Society need to provide more good art environment, and arts education to the public. For individuals, the important thing is self-shaping, rather than the sense of whether there is a talent.
LY: Please share a bit, do you think Mr. Yang Yong's works, which one or a series which can be regarded as satisfactory in your opinion, why? High achievers in one area and then word of mouth, which is a block of another masterpiece of the factors?
XT: his late nineties and early 2000s photographic series of works are works that l admire most, those topic with the scene of Shenzhen’s street, bridges, tunnels, or indoor girl, is to today, I think the best work. As you say, these works are distinctive with personal characteristics, cannot be repeated. Of course, according to what you have asked, this arts is a high degree of recognition advantage. Changing the style is difficult, as there are a lot of side constraints. “Achievements”, “masterpiece” are like the word in the history of art and culture, it has multiple meanings, it seems difficult to clearly answer “yes” or “no”.
LY: The pursuit of your art is pure, will market orientation to be easily changed, will it affect the popularity or artistic enlightenment efforts it? Can you think of Michael Yang regarded as “rich and famous,” the artist?
XT: Yes, it will not come easily for the market-oriented changes, in general, l will specifically be involved in the arts education outreach activities, in addition, my own creation, is not considered problem of universal enlightenment. Do you think Yong is “fame and fortune” type of artists, l cannot determine this. If he really is the artist of this type, I of course, is different from this type of artist. l think this kind of “fame and fortune” type of artist is a star of the artist’s potential to do.
LY: In your opinion do you think the what is role of art? And Mr. Yang Yong years of contacts to you have explored this problem?
XT: Art is culture, civilization and sometimes useful, sometime useless, but it can be used to judge where the living conditions of society. That is, if we judge a society, rich, but neither culture, nor art, we can imagine what this assessment means that if we happen to also live in a society, l think, how do we judge our life? l and Yong are often some of the more artistic of the internal problems will also cover this issue. Artistic creativity and economic benefits of the phase is not exclusive, so “in the art to create an effective, economic level, the effectiveness of re-creation may be relatively less”, this sentence is not true. Conversely, the economic benefits great artist, perhaps is not of any value creation, great artist may not create a good income, this is possible. ls there a specific individual creative artists, and how much is recognized by society, you may do both very good, good and on the other hand may also be a bad one, it may neither well. l want to say is that rising consumption in these two areas is not a relationship.
LY: The convective development works, what impressed you to do? Dafen Village is a rather special place, originally Mr. Yang Yong invite you to participate in the exhibition, have you been considering whether the location of the exhibition have to be in doubt of?
XT: Because l was a participating artist, and many times to field work, so almost all the works l have a memory. From this perspective, all the work made me impressed. Worthy of appreciation, this is a different kind of perspective from a consideration of contemporary art activity, where art is given to another context, and is presented in the context of a very complex context. All works presented on this exhibition are different from other general exhibition space in the present context and environment to the situation. I started not highly value the work in this field, and later find it very interesting. Yong is a very good personal friend of mine, but the real work of art for personal relationships is not important. For the pure work of art activities, the significance is limited.
LY: What do you think the exhibition will convey? Comparing to other exhibitions, are there inspiration in this exhibition regarding Dafen Village?
XT: There are many types of exhibition with different motivations, the content can convey very different, in general, to convey: 1.culture, ideals and creativity, 2.artistic expression of the desire of social communication, 3.commercial or other cultural communication policy needs. Dafen Village, is an exhibition due to its complex nature of background, the integration of the above three reasons, it is interesting of that the background brings a special meaning. l think the cultural and artistic development or useful, even beyond the local significance of the concept.
LY: If the exhibition has not been effectively communicated in term of curatorial mind, let’s analysis the reason, is the ability to accept or the other what?
XT: Any art exhibitions and the expected results are likely to get different results, because art of the most interesting is its unpredictability, which is experimental, and truly avant-garde. In China, the resonance of contemporary art is no more, I think the reason is: the contemporary art is developed from the Western tradition, China needs time to be recognized. In addition, even the traditional art of Chinese society in general lack of education and understanding, l said: Even the true tradition of art, is not easy for Chinese people to understand, such as very few Chinese people can really understand classical Chinese painting, which is very mysterious and beyond, l think awareness of this art in modern China has basically lost. If you can understand the true spirit of these traditional arts, even if some of the understanding, but also help to understand contemporary art. Contemporary art is not advanced, highbrow, but in the context of China's environment has not yet formed. Different ways to convey the visual arts to convey the text, you need some education. Without proper education, you can not really appreciate the tradition of the Ming and Qing and early Republican Chinese painting. Also like, if you did not attend high school or college, you also find it difficult to read philosophy and literature, in fact, modern Western literature, modern philosophy enrollment rate in the rapid expansion of our society, but fewer and fewer readers, l thought this is not highbrow issues.
LY: Mr. Yang Yong’s photographs, paintings in which the meaning are not obvious, Can you tell us how you interpret it?
XT: Yang Yong’s photographs, l think its valuable place is: it reflects a perception of the state, l think we have a special human consciousness in the state, between the emotional and rational in a time. At this time you press the shutter, the image conveyed to the fact that people's perception of information is in the other state to get the image match. l am from a professional point of view to see. In fact this is also a recognition, not esoteric, that is, I have a special recognition point of view, not profound. One image, and another image may be a small difference, only that the former you may feel you see the relationship between the picture seems to have a movement in the relationship, while the latter are at rest in these relationships. Capture these relationships need to be photographers themselves who are a special kind of physiological and psychological status, the status of the photographer, captured images will be reflected. And Yang Yong’s photographs are in a very sensitive situation, l seen it, is deeply personal in a rapid development of new cities in a particular Speaking the intention that the enjoyment and anxiety, and mental instability touched by the situation.
LY: People have a kind of thinking that once artist are no longer working on real art once they become rich, is this concept reasonable? In the contact of you and Mr. Yang Yong, have your ever exchange thoughts between you in such a similar misunderstanding of subject? How are your opinion?
XT: Artists wealthy and related to the development of China’s market, it really is not global, or reflect the social and cultural history of the case, Chinese contemporary art practice and artistic development of purely logical connection is not. In other words: not a lot of creative work produced in this period of rising market, so I do not care about it, artists are rich, l feel good, if the artists are not rich, is also normal, which for artistic creation Another problem is, l only care about art. Art money artists will do a better job, or badly, this is not “set up” scenario; imagine that if the Chinese art market is bad, artists are poor, then China’s contemporary art will be better? l do not think so. Overall, these rich artistic environment is conducive to artistic development, but the faint head off to bring the artist, the problem is the quality of the artist, not the money.
LY: Life and art can seamlessly link to us? When ordinary people are not in the expression also has a number of little artistic choice? Any suggestions?
XT: Yang Yong fully reflects the creation of new cities at that time a certain state of young people, in addition to the living condition of workers. l do “keyword” program, which will link the arts and social existence, is to understand the social consciousness of the situation, not only questioned, but some show and awareness of the potential tendency of the art of observation method used to detect, with art expression to study the expression of my exploration. l care more about the art of professional creative work. Art is a social expression, particularly in the way of contemporary art, once common understanding and knowledge can be a common and useful expression. Keywords school project I was doing when the great importance and the expression of the people in society, l always encourage them to enjoy the expression of that in the near future, in Shenzhen of my solo, l will try to encourage visitors to become artists, generally try to create as artists, even artists do 6 minutes, l will work to assist its expression.
LY: Working on contemporary art, do people need to have a kind of mind? To care for the fate of you, which is beyond the secular? Are you only focusing on the art itself? Do you consider for future development of it?
XT: l think the most important thing is that artists love arts, with an independent spirit. Concerning for the fate of the character of the individual quality of performance, not a necessary requirement for the artist, for example, in the era of political movements, artists, Fangxia Bi, to society, the response of the political movement called, perhaps as a people, you think it is everyone’s responsibility, but the artistic life as an artist is over. Our society in the past century, there are too much emphasis on the social conscience of intellectuals, and trampled on the necessity of artistic life as an artist, the result is not remarkable that led to this century’s philosophy, there is no good art. Any political movement, even war, are not interrupted a nation’s arts and cultural development or social reasons. As we all know the story of Archimedes in the calculation of the invading Romans were killed in Nazi-occupied Paris, Picasso painted “Guernica”, which are the highest in my mind, scientists, artists, personality. The givers of life and death and the other set. I said earlier, as art is sometimes useful, sometimes useless, however, it is a treasures of human civilization and its spirit, it is a question of values, if we do not think literature and art, not philosophy, not education, we can live well, the future of our society is what? Of course, in culture, and rapid development of art education later, when we are able to understand this art, we can only listen to real music, may be the same as we can see another world, perhaps.